48. Everything You Need to Know About DBS & TMS: Precision Targeting, Biotypes, & the Brain Basis of OCD & Depression with Dr. Martijn Figee
On episode 48 of A Chat with Uma, I sit down with psychiatrist–neuroscientist Dr. Martijn Figee, MD., PhD—director of Mount Sinai’s Interventional Psychiatry Program & a groundbreaking pioneer in neurostimulation (e.g. DBS, TMS) for psychiatric disorders, especially OCD & depression—for a clear, grounded tour of circuit‑based psychiatry. This is the science companion to last week’s episode with Jon Nelson (ep. 47): today's episode builds on Jon's lived experience to explain how & why the brain can change (in minutes!) when the right circuit is engaged. We unpack deep brain stimulation (DBS) surgery & transcranial magnetic stimulation (TMS), what “target selection” actually means, & how phenotyping (motor, cognitive, & negative‑affect circuits) guides targeting.We also get practical: access & eligibility, what insurers & clinicians look for, when to choose TMS first, & how accelerated TMS paired with ERP can fast‑track change. We bust myths (OCD ≠ “just the amygdala”) & look ahead to biotyping work designed to match people to the right target the first time--a real step toward precision psychiatry. If you want a rigorous, hopeful explainer of why electricity can be medicine & what that means for folks suffering, this episode shares everything you need to know from the world's expert!Topics Discussed (+ Timestamps):(00:00:00) Welcome & introduction to Dr. Martijn Figee!(00:11:50) Who is Martijn beyond titles: psychiatrist–scientist mindset & science as the backbone(00:17:00) From Amsterdam to DBS: imaging arrives, early OCD DBS cases, & changes in minutes(00:30:00) Circuit basics: motor–cognitive–limbic loops across OCD, Tourette, depression(00:35:52) Evidence‑based OCD care: ERP + adequate‑dose meds; why misdiagnosis/mistreatment delays recovery(00:45:30) Comorbidity vs. one driver: how untreated OCD breeds depression—& why it changes the treatment plan(00:51:00) From presentation to target: phenotyping (negative affect vs compulsion/motor vs cognitive) to pick a target(01:10:00) TMS before DBS? Standard vs accelerated TMS & pairing every session with ERP; access & insurance(01:21:20) DBS candidacy & access: OCD is FDA‑approved; depression is trial‑only; what insurers & teams look for(01:25:40) Targeting, not guessing: ALIC/internal capsule, STN, BNST & fiber‑map guidance pushing outcomes toward ~80%(01:27:40) Where to go: Sinai, Baylor, UCSF—why experience & proximity matters(01:29:50) Biotyping with in-scan tasks: motor/cognitive/limbic dominance; what scans can (& can’t) diagnose—yet(01:33:50) Who isn’t a fit & plan B: non‑ambulatory severity, hoarding‑only presentations, & the role of lesions(01:35:30) Myth‑busting: OCD ≠ an “amygdala disorder,” & why the amygdala isn’t a sensible target(01:38:10) Depression biotypes: switching off pathological “grief” loops; interview‑driven med algorithms & next stepsConnect with Dr. Martijn Figee!Email: martijn.figee@mssm.eduTRANSCEND Trial: DBS for treatment-resistant depressionDBS for OCDTry CURED Nutrition's CBN Night Oil, Serenity Gummies, & all of their other fantastic products--Use code 'UMA' for 15% off of all products!Try CLEARSTEM's amazing skincare products, including VITAMINSCRUB, CELLRENEW, CLEARITY, HYDRAGLOW, and HYDRABERRY--Use code 'UMA' for 15% off all products!Connect with me!My website: umarchatterjee.comInstagram: @UmaRChatterjeeTwitter: @UmaRChatterjeeTikTok: @UmaRChatterjeeEmail: hello@umarchatterjee.comSupport my work: https://ko-fi.com/umarchatterjeeHave a guest request? Fill out the Guest Suggestion Form!