Sizwe Mpofu-Walsh argues in his latest book that apartheid did not die in 1994 but had, instead, been privatised. In a substantive, theoretically rich, introduction chapter, he puzzles through conceptual analysis to justify his resuscitation of the dreaded apartheid-framework. Mindful of the fact that life before 1994 was, in obvious respects, uniquely evil under apartheid, the philosphical work in the introduction is important to avoid any hasty criticism about the work's main thesis. The subsequent middle chapters are empirically rich premises spanning many themes: space, law, wealth, technology, punishment. These chapters constitute the thick factual basis of the claim that apartheid has been privatised.The book ends with an admirable set of reflections on the limitations of the work, possibilities for future research, and a more expansive,and at times literary summary of the author's feelings, to complement the introduction.In this episode of In The Ring With Eusebius McKaiser, I engaged Sizwe in very close detail about this work. Where we agree (often deeply), I honoured and underscored what, in my view, is wonderfully provocative and cogent about the arguments. And, at other times, I went after some of the weaknesses, in my view, of aspects of the middle chapters in particular. I hope listeners of the podcast enjoy this dialogue between us, and rush out to buy a copy of this excellent second book by one of our most thoughtful early career scholars and commentators to have emerged in recent years.