‘You Don’t Take Dictation. You Find the Truth.’

Note: This episode contains descriptions of suicide and sexual violence. Cheryl phones Amy Tan at her home overlooking Sausalito Bay in California. The two chat about family, grief and the long arc of resilience.

Om Podcasten

Cheryl Strayed, also known as Sugar, says writing taught her how to give advice. In this moment of uncertainty, she’s setting aside advice-giving in favor of wisdom-seeking and turning to the writers who have long inspired her for courage and insight. Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.