E Stone • Well Seasoned: Pro Files

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On today’s episode of Pro Files: Well Seasoned - E Stone. He got his start as an aspiring pro with a number of flow sponsorships. Upon graduating high school he promptly moved to colorado - in no small part to watching the seminal Mack Dawg film The Hard, The Hungry and the Homeless. And in his first season out West he started what many would consider one of the important brands in the history of the sport Tech 9. In this episode we hear all about the ups and downs of being an entrepreneur in the sport of snowboarding.  Indeed, starting a brand is no get rich quick scheme as many might expect - it is in fact lon g hours, empty bank accounts - and doing something you believe in. During his time running Tech 9 Ethan picked up another skill - becoming a photographer - then senior photographer for snowboarder Magazine. But riders want to ride - and E Stone is a rider, starting The Bombhole podcast with pro snowboarder Chris Grenier.  This is an interesting episode - the backstory of a legend in the sport, lessons from playing multiple positions across the industry and healthy passion for the fun of snowboarding. Today's episode brought to you by Artilect http://artilect.studio Cardiff Snowcraft http://cardiffsnow.com Tow Pro Lifts http://towpro-lifts.com Owner Operator HTTP://owneroperator.us United Shapes  http://unitedshapes.us 686 Outerwear http://686.com Electrovoice Microphones http://electrovoice.com   •••••••••••   M Mark_sullivan00:03 Yeah, I got. I got a few good ones that tookck this one out theres. one got sponsored for this one. E Ethan00:08 Really? M Mark_sullivan00:09 This is uh, electro voice M Mark_sullivan00:12 y. That's a good mike. too. M Mark_sullivan00:14 this is the Mac Daddy. Though, E Ethan00:16 that thing looks dude. M Mark_sullivan00:19 Yeah, so too ki. what you got? Yeah, E Ethan00:20 Yes, sorry, it took me a minute to get this all figured out. M Mark_sullivan00:25 worries that worries. E Ethan00:26 Not used to talking to about myself. You know what I mean. so it's uh, M Mark_sullivan00:29 I know we're going to change that right here. It looks like you got some sound padding on the walls there behind you, too. E Ethan00:36 that's not what it M Mark_sullivan00:36 that's E Ethan00:37 is. It's some mirrors or something, E Ethan00:40 and I got a dog next to me. M Mark_sullivan00:43 nice. nice. M Mark_sullivan00:45 right on. Well, uh, you know, maybe we should kick this thing off Interview with E. Ste, normally a guy who's behind a Mike. asking people questions today. I' get to ask him some questions. How you doing today? Ethan, E Ethan00:57 I'm doing good a little nervous. M Mark_sullivan01:00 Little nervous. Why are you nervous today? E Ethan01:02 I don't know, dude. I'm not used to talking about myself' chilling here with M Mark_sullivan01:08 Okay? E Ethan01:08 the O. Know, M Mark_sullivan01:10 Oh nice. E Ethan01:12 he doesn't talk though M Mark_sullivan01:13 Oh yeah. E Ethan01:13 he's not order of the interview. M Mark_sullivan01:15 yeah. E Ethan01:16 You just want to laugh. M Mark_sullivan01:16 you always got to have a dog as part of the interview. Though E Ethan01:19 Yeah, true. M Mark_sullivan01:19 that always makes sense. E Ethan01:21 Yeah, so I'm M Mark_sullivan01:22 So E Ethan01:22 a little nervous, but I'm hyy. to talk with you. M Mark_sullivan01:26 right on. Well, I'll make it pretty easy on you because I'll just roll back to right in the beginning of your snowboarding career. Um. Arizona Snowball. How did you get there and what were you doing snowboarding in Arizona? E Ethan01:38 How did you know I was in Arizona? M Mark_sullivan01:41 I know these things. E Ethan01:42 You know these things. you know. I went there with Bloto. Um. he grew up there, E Ethan01:48 So I was living with him in Vail at the time and we kind of had a bunch of similar sponsors and uh, oh no, let me trace this back. Actually, I went. I, I met Bloto there. I'm I'm actually wrong. I'm a little. uh. I got some memory issues so that's where I met Bloto. I was traveling around with. Uh, E Ethan02:09 I think they were called Hollywood films at the time, M Mark_sullivan02:12 Mhm. E Ethan02:13 and Uh, E Ethan02:15 kind of working on my first time filming snowboarding E Ethan02:19 And it was Uh, Rick and Tillion was the filmer and uh, I think I just jumped in the car with these guys that went on a filming trip. E Ethan02:29 I think that was when I got my first photo in East Infection E Ethan02:33 with your magazine, was actually on that same trip. But yeah, we stopped in Snowball, and uh Bloto just happened to be there and started shooting with us. E Ethan02:43 And uh, that place was awesome. E Ethan02:47 I think Uh, M Mark_sullivan02:48 I would say. actually, that mag that mag was play or mag, because I got a copy of it right here. E Ethan02:52 Player magazine, not East infection. Yeah, it was your magazine All right. M Mark_sullivan02:57 Yeah, Yeah, that was my mag back in the day. M Mark_sullivan03:00 You know that that's how I got started. But you were actually one of the writers we featured in that mag. E Ethan03:05 That was probably my first published photo anywhere. E Ethan03:09 It was like a seven twenty sequence or something. I don't think it was M Mark_sullivan03:13 Yup, E Ethan03:13 at. Uh in Arizona. I was on the way to Arizona, somewhere in Utah, I think, E Ethan03:18 but uh, yeah, that was awesome. M Mark_sullivan03:19 So you had dreams, though of being like a pro writer, being filming movie parts doing the whole thing. E Ethan03:24 Yeah, I moved out from Vermont, Kinda got fueled by the hard, Go hungry and the Homeless. That movie I think that came out when I was in eleventh grade E Ethan03:35 and uh, kinda just made me want to move to where those guys were And that was Bracken Ridge, and uh, right when I graduated from high school, I just made the move. I actually graduated a half year early, so I could get out there even sooner, and uh, I remember when I told my mom she straight up cried 'cause I wasn't going to go to college. E Ethan03:56 and uh, she just thought I was throwing away my life and there was no future, E Ethan04:00 but I did it anyways and just uh made the move to. We couldn't get to Brack and Ridge where we wanted to move 'cause all the housing was filled up, so we uh, moved to Vale, which actually ended up being dove because we kind of met a really good community with people like ▁j two and Nj, Adam Merriman, um Tarquin, And uh, yes, I was just kind of following that dream of trying to become a pro snowboarder, M Mark_sullivan04:29 So what kind of job did you work in Vail when you first arrived? E Ethan04:33 all dishwashing, E Ethan04:35 and M Mark_sullivan04:35 All dishwashing. E Ethan04:35 Uh, Hydro ceramic technician was the uh, official term, but uh yet, M Mark_sullivan04:41 Okay, E Ethan04:41 basically you know in Vale there there's a lot of tourism. Obviously, this, it's a lot different than it was. Uh than it is. Now you know, now it's even crazier. but back then I mean the only jobs were really working for the mountain or working for Uh, a restaurant E Ethan04:57 and I lived, Uh, moved out there with all Egu lay, and then a couple of other good friends from Vermont, and we all just got dishwashing jobbs. I think we had eight of us in a two almos, seven of us in a two bedroom in Uh, Avon, Colorado, which is just right next to Vale, E Ethan05:14 and Uh, M Mark_sullivan05:14 and were you a sponsored writer at the time? do you like sponsored? E Ethan05:17 when I moved out there, No sponsors. Um, E Ethan05:21 but quickly E Ethan05:23 through meeting people like ▁j two and all that you got introduced to a lot of different raps and picked up some sponsors. Um, I got picked up by six, eight, six pretty early, and that's how Uh. Bloto was riding for them as well, so I think that's why we met him at Snowball Snowball and Uh, Scott boards, and E Ethan05:44 Um, E Ethan05:46 I was kind of like a rap rider for Original Sin, but I wouldn't consider that sponsored. like when I moved out from Vermont, Just like a little bit of board flow. You know, M Mark_sullivan05:56 Okay? So you're in Colorado. You're starting to shoot video. You are starting to take photos. You know. I mean, at what point did you decide that like? Okay, Actually, I'm going to start a binding company Because E Ethan06:10 you know that. M Mark_sullivan06:10 you started that pretty early on in Vail. E Ethan06:12 Yeah, we actually started that our first year living in Vale, and uh, what we were doing was go in the Home Depot and getting metal brackets, and my buddy from high school. ▁j, three would kind of cut them into the parts we needed to make the first baseless bindings, and uh, we would use straps from just whatever available binding was out there, and the highbas as well, And then at the Uh, he worked at the Beaver Creek. Uh, he was a snowmaker and W had access to like the shop at Beaver Creek, the workshop, and was able to use like a metal bender to. We would just cut like diamond plate metal into uh heel cups and then bend themem on this uh bending machine they had up there, And so we had kind of the first baseless bindings going, And he made Paris for myself and for Tarquin and forer all, Lee and uh, My dad came out and saw what we were doing and he was like, Oh, I could help you guys get these made, actually manufactured for real, and uh, so we made some samples and then we went to Uh, the trade show that year, which I was eighteen. So this was like nineteen ninety four. We went to the trade show in San Diego, E Ethan07:27 and Uh didn't have a booth or anything. We were just kind of walking around and we met a uh, Japanese distributor and they saw what we had, and Uh instantly made a giant order and all of a sudden we were just a company and they ended up being our distributor for the the whole time we were a company, too, which was pretty cool. So like twenty three years or something, M Mark_sullivan07:47 Okay, so how long did you like try to wear two hats in that you were trying to be a team rider for different brands and then you were starting your own brand? How long did you keep both of those balls in the air? E Ethan07:57 I would say until uh, around ninety nine two thousand, I moved out to Co, to Utah from Colorado, and Uh, the mountains out here were a bit different than Colorado, As as people know, they're a little bit more aggressive. The jumps got a little bit bigger and snowboarding got a little more serious. I was riding with Marco a lot, kind of following him off jumps and he was just so good and I would end up, you know, trying to go as big as him and then just eating shit. End up worked after the day, like barely able to walk. trying to follow Marco. You know, so I kind of realized I just wasn't on this dues level and maybe I should start focusing on Uh, Tech Nine a little bit more, and at the same time, Bloto kind of uh, gave me a camera, so I started shooting photos as well, which got me to be able to still be out with guys like Marco, but not, uh, didn't work. M Mark_sullivan08:53 Was that his nice way of being like your riding is and cutting it? E Ethan08:57 No, he. it was actually, he. Uh, He had gone to the East coast. He was working for Tech Nine at the time as our team manager and he kind of snuck off to the East Coast for a meeting with Burton, and uh, I think he felt bad that he was taking the job and leaving Tech Nine, so he just handed me down his camera. But yeah, maybe it was a kind of a nice way to say, Maybe maybe you're not uh as good as the rest of the te. M Mark_sullivan09:21 Okay So so now you're running Tech nine and you are starting to learn how to be a photographer? Take us through that of like what it was like to, actually, you know, get your chops developed for taking photos of. People, how long did that take? E Ethan09:33 You know, I was pretty blessed. In that sense, I was able to uh, go out with guys like Kevin ▁zacher, and Nate Christensson, who were top photographers at the time. I used to shoot with them on the other side of the camera, so they let me come out, and uh, kinda just stand right next to him and ask him any question I wanted And why they were doing what they were doing and what their settings were. E Ethan09:59 And and Ah, they basically topy the ropes, and I think both of them went to photo school, so they're pretty well trained at what they were doing. I know, ▁zacher did for sure. Um, so yeah, I just got to stand there and and was able to ask them anything, and and learn pretty fast and shoot the top talent that they uh were shooting. so uh, eventually they were kind of like man, you gotta. you're getting better shots than we are. You gotta kinda get off on your own. now you know that eventually they, they sent me away, But at first they were as cool as it, kids, and taught me everything I needed to know about flashes and light. It was filmed too, so it was a little bit harder than digy. and uh, yeah, they really gave me everything I needed to know, And's why when photographers asked me questions now I'm always really nice about answering them. because Uh, those guys did that for me, you know, 'cause some guys M Mark_sullivan10:51 Yeah, E Ethan10:51 like Andy Wright was a little more competitive. He would never let me come out with them. M Mark_sullivan10:56 Okay, so M Mark_sullivan10:55 no, okay, but you're still friends with Andy Wright, Correct. E Ethan10:58 Yeah, no, Andy's the man he was. He was kind of the top top photographer in the streets for all those years, so it was uh, always shooting with the people I wanted to be shooting with too, so I kind of got his scraps for for years, which uh M Mark_sullivan11:12 Oh yes, E Ethan11:12 ended up working out. M Mark_sullivan11:14 so what was that like? Like? If you were going to go go to a spot to shoot photos Andy Rightr was already there. Did you have to kind of turn tail and go go home? E Ethan11:23 Yeah, it was pretty competitive and then, even as they got more competitive with, uh, I think in Utah, back then there was like ten photographers living here. Um, so you had to have your crew like lined up, or else you wouldn't have anyone to shoot. And Uh, obviously the Ridrs wanted the most established photographers they could have. So for a new photographer it was always pretty hard. Um, but you just had to keep fning. M Mark_sullivan11:47 So so who was that crew? Who were the guys that you would shoot with regularly? E Ethan11:51 Um. You know what one one thing I had that a lot of people didn't have is they had access to the Tech Nine team, so that did help me out a bit of. If Andy was out with a bunch of yii' crew, let's say, or, uh, robot food or something, then I would always have whatever tech Nine Ridrs were hanging around, and then at the same time Cole kind of started f o d t. So that was always a crew for me to to kind of join up with no matter what, and he was always kind of grabbing new riders that no one had heard of at at the time, like Daryl Mathis or Justin Habble, who ended up becoming big pros. so no one knew who they were at that time when I was shooting them. During the time they were kind of cutting their teeth and figuring it out, so it kind of just all worked out. I M Mark_sullivan12:39 right? So who? who was your first photo published? And how long did it take From the time you picked up a camera Ti, the time you actually got a photo published. E Ethan12:37 guesse I think it was pretty quick and uh, my memories is horrible. but I want to say it might have been Bobby Meeks at Brighton, and uh, it was like the first year I was shooting. Um. He was my roommate at the time, so I had access to like him in blue, Montgomery and Cody Dresser, and and people like that, But yeah, I think uh, it happened that first year. Um in snowboarder M Mark_sullivan13:09 Okay, Okay, E Ethan13:09 magazine. Imagine you were working there at the time. M Mark_sullivan13:13 I probably was. If it was around two thousand, two thousand One was there. E Ethan13:17 Yeah, I can't M Mark_sullivan13:18 So E Ethan13:18 remember who the photo editor might have beent Baker, But no, it, George M Mark_sullivan13:22 Mhm, E Ethan13:22 Cavala, Actually, M Mark_sullivan13:23 Okay, then I was. I was there. E Ethan13:24 and I knew him from back in Vermont, too, so I think that kind of helped when I sent in my stack. You know, M Mark_sullivan13:30 Okay. so let me ask you about this. Like going back to the Tech nine days, You know, Techn had like a pretty, um, unique image in the sport when that kind of stood apart. Where did that come from? How did you guys kind of get this like ▁urban image to go with? Like Tech Nine Binding? And maybe where did the name Te nine even come from? E Ethan13:50 you know we were really into music growing up in Burlington, Vermont, Um, a lot of people wouldn't believe it, but there wass like a huge Jamaican dance hall, Reggae, the music scene, and uh, M Mark_sullivan14:02 Flextonone? E Ethan14:04 yeah, yeah, there's just I don't know why Burlington's liked that, but just a huge scene. And uh, so I kind of grew up listening to that type of music and they're always talking about techniying the gun. And since the bindings were all metal like that, the first ones were made out of metal. Um, I just mentioned that name and everyone's hyped on it, so it kind of stuck. So that's how we got the name. but I'd say the image really just came from E Ethan14:30 from music. as. well. You know, we're big into a lot of us, Like Tarquin was a d. ▁j. At the time, Ali was a t. ▁j. Um, so the riders were all super in the music, so we just tried to really bring what was going on in cities like the style that you would see too snowboarding. 'cause no one has really done that yet. E Ethan14:52 And uh, it really all just came from listening to music. M Mark_sullivan14:57 It seems like you know, like that image is something that is really stuck with snowboarding to this day and a lot of people still kind of have that like Tech Nine looking fi. I mean, how does it feel to like? look back on the sport and be like Wow, Nine really had a lasting influence here. E Ethan15:13 It's pretty sweet. Um, I, I've heard baggy stuff coming back too, so hopefully we'll start seeing seeing it even more, 'cause I think it always makes people the. S. not. I mean, you can go too baggy. Obviously it looks a little ridiculous and that did happen. you know, I think we saw certain writers go that way, but when tastefully done, I think it looks pretty good when you're snowboarding, So yeah, it's awesome to see. I still see people riding the old tech diy outerwe like all the time That actually up Brighton. M Mark_sullivan15:40 What? What team writer like embodied the tech style for you the most? E Ethan15:45 Jeeze, that's a tough call. Um, I think a lot of them took it too far eventually, but M Mark_sullivan15:52 Yeah, like whats too far? Like where's take it too far? E Ethan15:55 too far. Just when the the triple excel. I don't know Gooer and Bradshaw and them were definitely taking the bagginess a step too far, but now they rock it all tastefully, so I think it was just uh. I mean, I don't know what it was. The bright colors and the bagginess came in with logos everywhere. I think that's when it went too far for me, M Mark_sullivan16:19 Yeah, Okay, So what are like the accomplishments that you had during Tech Nine that you are like proud of, most proud of today. looking back on it. E Ethan16:26 man, just uh, I still see so many people with techline tattoos. I think that's pretty crazy to see a logo that Um. we created up just people so hyped they're goingnna tattoo it on themselves. Um, E Ethan16:40 just the excitement around the brand and what we were able to do with bringing up different team writers, and I think with f o d t, we made uh, I wa, to say almost twenty movies. So we werere super proud of that and uh, actually, I'm probably way off. Probably ten movies. I think it was only ten movies. M Mark_sullivan16:59 Ten, twenty, whatever. E Ethan17:00 Whatever. I only worked on like the first five, so I start to M Mark_sullivan17:05 Yeah, E Ethan17:05 lose lose, Uh, lose track of it. Cole would have to straighten me out on that, but uh yeah, with the movies, Um, bringing up riders, And you know, having the first baseless binding out there was pretty pretty cool. Just being on the forefront of a technology. it ended up not sticking. But it lasted for some years and was kind of on the forefront of like new school snowboarding, Um, and then when we got into boards and outer, where it made us kind of more of a competition or more competitive to other brands. So things got a little bit more real and it was a little bit harder with team writers 'cause we had to get 'em like head to toe and and uh, we would bring up new riders and have other brands kind of swoop 'em after we got a breako part with f o d t or something, So that was kinda hard, E Ethan17:52 but it was all lot, M Mark_sullivan17:52 it seems like a lot of writedrs like started with Tech Nine and then moved on to other larger brands. Like who were some of those team writers who are like, kind of still. to this day a little bit sore that they left Tech Nine and kind of left the fold. If you will, E Ethan18:06 you know, I was never too sore about it. Coal would kind of get sore about it, but I was always just like Man, make the money while you could make it, because most of them they wouldn't leave just for a little bit of money. It would be like tripleling their pay or something and getting a budget to be able to travel around the world. Um, like Aaron Bitner, when he went to D. C. I mean that was like a big change in how he was going to be able to to uh, tackle pro snowboarding to be able to travel everywhere with Macog, So for me I was always kind of just like man, Do it. Do what you gotta do. So I was uh, never really that sore about it. E Ethan18:43 We also had eighteen. M Mark_sullivan18:43 who are your favorite writers? Like the whole history of Tech Nine be cause you had everyone from Tarquin through Gruner. So like who are your favorite guys who embodied Tech Nine for you? E Ethan18:54 Jeeze, man I, They were all. I was able to spend so much time traveling around and going on trips with them because I have oy. T that a lot of them? Uh, hold a special place you know, like tarkinn. Obviously, in the early days Evan Whitlake on Um, he did that first one, black one white binding, which was Uh. no one had ever done two different color binding. So that always is something pretty cool and was cool to have Whitlake be part of the program and then, in the later years, definitely Gooner and Bradaw, where some of my favorites deadlong was always sick to cruise and shoot. Um. Just if Benny was Ra to, I mean, everybody was was sick to have on the program. We tried to kind of sponsor our friends. You know, so it was always uh. They just happened to be good at snowboarding too, so it all kind of just worked together. M Mark_sullivan19:42 So you say you sponsored your friends? Did any of them become enemies when the business got involved? Do like not get along with someone that you used to get along with based on them working for you Now Instead E Ethan19:54 Um. M Mark_sullivan19:54 of just being a friend, E Ethan19:56 I was always chilll. If Cole maybe had some issues like that, Um, when we did have to make some cuts, it always sucked, E Ethan20:04 but E Ethan20:06 now there's nobody on the team that I'm not friendly with. You know everybody E Ethan20:10 is, Uh, is still still chill. but you know, sometimes, yeah, we would have to make hard decisions and cut a team rider that we didn't want to cut, And that did suck. And Um, I always tried to maintain a a friendly disposition with Themem, and Cole would have been the guy hand. he. He was a team manager, you know, so he had to kind of deal with that a little bit more than I did. and uh, I think they understood that it. Nes wasn't necessarily his call. It was budgets and ever changing budgets and snowboarding. as as things change, you know, Um, I know, maybe for a short time there was some riders that maybe were bumms if they got cut, E Ethan20:50 but shit happens. I guess they got over it, M Mark_sullivan20:54 you know, it seems like the snowboard industry is pretty tough to deal with. I mean, you had this image and people have this like image of Tech Ninee from the outside. Look in. What is it actually like running a brand and maintaining that cool factor for all those years and trying to keep everyone happy? E Ethan21:10 dude. it was narly, Especially as our team got bigger. it was. Uh, there's a lot of mouths to feed. and as we'd put out a f o d T movie, and everyone would work hard and get a good part. You know, then you got like ten riders that you gotta try to look after and take care of, and they all worked hard the season before. But then there'd only be so much money to go around. I think people also thought we were a lot bigger than we were, because we were definitely seen kind of worldwide and around the mountain. And I think it was just 'cause the product was pretty pretty noticeable, so people thought we were larger than we were, But it was always a struggle to try to take care of everybody, and and do what we needed to do. And then when you're dealing with uh, binding moulds to make new binding moless, it's so expensive. It's uh, it'snrly and then when you throw in we minimums and trying to do board moulds and all the graphics and the artists he need. It's pretty much was just endless enough to spend money on, and not a lot of money to be made at the end of the day, and the the winter cycle is so hard, too, When you're only getting paid one time a year, and then shops don't even pay you sometimes, um, I mean, a lot of times on time, so that was a struggle trying to collect the money. They're They're usually paying the bigger brands first to make sure they can still carry Burton in the future, so the smaller brands would get paid last. So it was just a constant struggle. And uh, E Ethan22:34 I think a lot of people don't realize that, but maintaining the cool factor wasn't that hard 'cause we had so many minds to kind of help help us with that when with all the team writers and all that, so it was kinda that was kind of the easier part. I guess just all the creativity between all the different writers. M Mark_sullivan22:52 Okay, so you mentioned the creativity? Like? what? What are like? Some of the favorite products that you developed over the years. The things that you would like look back on today with pride E Ethan23:03 Um, you know who was awesome to work with on boards was Lucas Macgoon. All of his graphics were kinda just straight from the mind of Lucas, and he just had to kinda. s, kind of take notes on his ideas and then translate that to Dave, Dom and the artist, and when done right, they just came out insane, And those are some of my favorite board graphics. Still today. Like Lucas had, his first one was like a Gremlin's Gremlin's take off, which was pretty sick. And just every different one of his art pieces that he'd come come straight from his mind was just insane. Um. On the technical side, we just tried to make products that made sense. So just trying to always make bindings better and better. Um, we came up with the first tow strap that went over the front of the toe of the boot, and uh, M Mark_sullivan23:54 was that Marco's idea? E Ethan23:54 so that was always pretty. It was actually just in Hebble, and Mark O M Mark_sullivan23:58 Okay? E Ethan23:58 Po adopted it to binding, so they called it the Baltimore Toastrap, and uh, we knew here on the Something Rad. When all of a sudden Burton hit us with like a simultaneous invention and they showed up at the trade show like a handmade one. When we had one that was already molded. You know theyd caught wind of what we were doing, so uh, there was like a little bit of a a weird lawsuit there, but we kind of all just squashed it and move forward and that's why you see the strap on everybody's uh findings now, M Mark_sullivan24:28 I mean, you talk about lawsuits. I mean, what are the most challenging parts about running a business and M Mark_sullivan24:34 keeping keeping it rubberide down? E Ethan24:36 Um, you know we had good insurance, so E Ethan24:40 when the lawsuit does happen, they kind of it's all handled with insurance, but we never had any like injury suits or anything like that, which is dope. Um, but yeah, you have to make sure your products are, are are on point, or else that stuff can happen. you know, but I guess the the trick is to just get insurance right away if you're a company that's being uh, ridden like snowboards are ridden. You know, M Mark_sullivan25:04 Yeah, okay, so like how did like Tech Nine come undone? As far as like I know, you guys were an independent brand for a number of years and then you became part of this collective or the collective, I want to say, And you are part of Likeoms and Tech Nine and a few other brands. What was the thing? though, really, kind of like was the thread that you pulled on that kind of unwound. the whole thing E Ethan25:29 you know, the biggest issue we always had was cash flow. Um, E Ethan25:35 even when we got that first order our first year in business, you know all of a sudden. If you get like a five hundred thousand dollar order, you need like two hundred and fifty thousand dollars to make a product, And uh, E Ethan25:48 we did not have that. Um. I actually found out later that Uh, my dad took credit cards out of my name, and that's how we funded the first E Ethan26:00 Tech Nine products And I found that out, actually, like a couple of years after the fact, when I was at his house and a very large credit card bill showed up and I was like I M Mark_sullivan26:09 with's. Your name on it E Ethan26:09 don't have an American Express. What's that? M Mark_sullivan26:12 with your name on it. E Ethan26:13 Yeah, with my name on it and I opened it up. I was at his house like. Oh, this is weird and just like a couple hundred thousand dollar bill. Just like Whoa. It got me more ownership of Tech Nine when I saw that he did that, But that's basically kind of a sneaky way. He started the funding of the company. Um gave me good credit at the time, I guess, 'cause he did end up paying it all off, which he said he always would, so I guess he was true to his word on that, but it was a little uh sketchy When I did see it as a young kid when you get a bill like that, but yeah, cash flow was always the tough part. So as we got bigger, you know all of a sudden you're a million dollar company at retail. you need five hundred thousand dollars to get your product made and you gotta wait like six months until you're gonna get paid back anything. and you gotta pay the factories or else they're not gonna ship. And so we didn't really have that. So we had to get investors, and that comes at a price. You know they're gonna want ownership. And if someone's injecting a couple of million dollars so you can actually operate and and do ads, and and really kind of step up the brand, they're gonna want a big chunk, you know, and probably gonna want ownership at a controlling interest. And so that was, kind of. uh. E Ethan27:30 I guess the step in the direction that kind of is a bummer. So anyone who's got a company going, try to hold out on uh, getting controlling interest and that's kind of the beginning of the end. I would say we lasted a twenty two years or something, but I would say after the first five years, you know we were already. We already had an investor. We weren't that stoked on. So then we had to find another one and then that came out of price. And then we had to find another one and that came out of price. And uh, eventually, I mean, it was always. it was still rad, Because when you get these new investors, you do get a cash injection and you're making more money. You're all of a sudden calling up Snowboarder and you can do an advertising campaign. and uh, it definitely had its perks and I think it did help us grow to be the biggest. Like the biggest we ever were was when we were part of that. Uh, it was called brand base. When it was no misss and tech Nine Together we were M Mark_sullivan28:26 Mhm. E Ethan28:26 almost. We made an offer to buy Grenade at one point, and that was going to join up. Um, and that's like when we were the largest we ever were as a brand. So there's something to be said about having that cash flow and what you can do with it. But then it's also there's just so many hands in the pot that it. Uh, and other people that you have a vision for a brand that you kind of started with the original team, but then other people can kind of veto that and make decisions. You're not that stoked on. And and then you' all of a sudden, not the same brand that you were when you started. you know, M Mark_sullivan28:58 Yeah, so I mean you talk about cash flow and I think every start up business has issues with just keeping the lights on and E Ethan29:05 Yeah, M Mark_sullivan29:05 keeping the the bills being paid. Like what's the tightest rub you ever had with a cash flow situation with Te nine? Just something weir like, I'm not sure if we're going to get out of this. E Ethan29:15 um, jeeze, I think we were at that point pretty much every year There was. there was no M Mark_sullivan29:20 Really? E Ethan29:20 time when we weren't like that. Because of the whole cycle of being a winter sports brand. You know where you have to give all this money to the factory or else they won't ship you, and then the brand. The shops still haven't paid you back, and you have to get on the phone and call every single one of themem. I mean, that's why there's so many less less shops right now than there was before. Because they've had they have it. just maybe more tougher than brands 'cause they get stuck with all that inventory. So this, the whole cycle is just so hard that there, probably there E Ethan29:51 every season we were at a point where I mean, I shouldn't say every season there were some seasons where it was like. I don't think we're going to make it through this. like if we don't get another cash injection or an investor, we're definitely going to shut down. There's probably like three seasons like that and every season we would somehow get through it and something would happen. and um, maybe the factory would give us better terms or something. And I guess where there's a will, there's a way you know, so we would always figure it out, But there was definitely three seasons where it was almost like all right time to. I guess I'm going to start shooting photos more aggressively or or something like that. So it was uh, but it's always pretty tough just being uh a brand. That depends on one season. E Ethan30:36 We M Mark_sullivan30:36 Yeah, I mean you, E Ethan30:36 even tried, tried at one M Mark_sullivan30:37 you. E Ethan30:37 point to maybe develop clothing to be a more seasonal brand, But it's so hard when you're rooted in snowboarding. You know, M Mark_sullivan30:46 Yeah, so I mean, you mentioned that you know that you had like three seasons where you could have pulled the plug and then you were like Okay, Maybe I'll shoot more photos. It seems like you were shooting photos a lot at this time that you were working on Tech Nine. How did that ramp up as you were trying to run a business at the same time, E Ethan31:04 Um, it was tough. Luckily, with my dad working with us, you know, he would deal with a lot of the stuff on the uh, warehouse level and the back end, which he kind of understood. The stuff we were doing out in the field with boots on the ground is what propelled the brand to where it was. You know, so he really understood that, but as we got more investors that got harder to kind of explain like, Oh, you're out shooting photos and you're making a career that, But then you're also like the brand manager at Tech nine, so I'd have to really be really transparent with what I was doing and work really hard to uh, kind of do my tech di stuff as well as shoe photos, and, and kind of uh, make it all work towards the end and all that, but and towards the end after twenty years of doing tech. Nine photography was kind of a lot fun. just 'cause twenty years of trying to develop a board line gets pretty. Uh. It gets pretty monotonous, you know, or, or rewriting a catalogue for the twentieth time, and gets pretty crazy, so I was kind of maybe towards the end my heart was just more in photography anyways, and it was going really good with snowboarder Mag, and I was able to team up with a lot of different crews, kind of outside of techline, So uh, and you know, go on helly trips with Volkum or who knows what else, other opportunities would pop up, and with Tech Di, I wasn't able to do that stuff, so towards the end I. Think, uh, the passion was definitely more towards photography. M Mark_sullivan32:39 So you were getting better opportunities from other brands outside of Tech Nine. Despite working at Tech Nine, E Ethan32:45 Yeah, at. at some points even with Tech nine, I was like the staff photographer for Sims. Well, I was the brand manager for Tech Nine and it kind of just worked out 'cause Mark Frank rode for Sims at the time, and a couple of other ridrs like Nko Dros Road for Sims and some of our B riders. So uh, it was mellow. I was able to maintain those positions. Well, I worked for Tech Nine, Um, as well as we. A. What's that? M Mark_sullivan33:10 was there ever a point? Was there ever a point where you started making more money on the photography than off of Tech Nine, E Ethan33:17 for sure? there definitely was and that's why another reason I was like Man, this is. uh. Maybe I should be focusing more on this and working more with brands. and uh 'cause Tech Nine couldn't couldn't really pay as well. especially in those seasons where we' almost going to go to business. you know, so yeah, there was M Mark_sullivan33:36 Mhm? E Ethan33:36 definitely a point where photography was was kinda what was really paying the bills. M Mark_sullivan33:42 So how much money could you potentially make running a small brand and snowboarding? I mean, Is it lucrative like you' like counting to retire one day off of this, or is it just something where you like doing what I love helping my friends out? E Ethan33:54 It's funny when I was young and naive, I was like. I'm definitely going to be able to retire one day from this and then as you kind of really get into the business and hownarly it can be. Um, as you get older, and I guess open your eyes a little more. I started to realize there's no way I'm goingnna be retired from this, and uh, just as there was more owners that own part of the brand. And and also like how often our snowboard brands really sold, except when they're like in dire straits, and they're kind of bought for pennies on the dollar. You know. it's only M Mark_sullivan34:29 Yeah, E Ethan34:30 happened like a couple of times. M Mark_sullivan34:32 what? what was your ownership equity in Tech Nine? Like percentage wise when you started versus when you finally left at the end E Ethan34:39 Um do. When I started. I only had like three percent 'cause young and naive. My dad kinda uh, gave us a very small percentage 'cause he said he was putting all the money in, but then when I realized it was my money, I jumped up to like twenty percent and then uh, but there was like five of us who started it, So it wass all split up and then uh, it would have to get diluted every time a new investor came in, And so I think by the end I was at like, I don't know, like ten percent or something, but I started to realize it was better to make. More money than it was. even, hold on the percentage because like I said, how often do these brands really sell unless it's pennies' on the dollar? You know, so I kinda just went for getting a bigger salary as opposed to percentile? M Mark_sullivan35:27 right, I can't really think of too many brands that have had like a big pay day at the end, so to speak, one that have been around even for fifteen or twenty years, really is not a lot that have some kind of successful outcome for the people who. Started the brands. E Ethan35:42 Yeah, it's pretty harsh and it's uh. it just comes. There's all of a sudden, sharks in the water when they really need money and they just make an offer. That is the only way to keep the brand around, you know, E Ethan35:54 and uh. M Mark_sullivan35:54 Y, So did did that like turn you off from like running the brand. The fact that you are owning last and getting pen nes on the dollar from what you thought it was worth? E Ethan36:02 Well, the more responsibility I took the more I was able to get paid though, so it's kind of like a. E Ethan36:09 It was kind of better just to take. I. I, in my mind, knowing that a lot of brands don't sell, and seeing how a lot of these deals go down, Um, E Ethan36:19 the more responsibility I would rather instead of shares, just take a bigger salary, you know, M Mark_sullivan36:24 Y. okay, E Ethan36:24 and uh, I don't know. if that's always the case. I just feel from what I saw in snowboarding it kinda seemed that that's that's how it kind of goes. You know, so even if we did sell one day, it would just probably be E Ethan36:39 not for what. The you're never. really. You don't really sell when you're in a strongvantage point. You know you, you end up selling shares when you're when you need the money. It seems like otherwise you're trying M Mark_sullivan36:50 Mhm, E Ethan36:50 to hang onto the brand. And there are brands that have M Mark_sullivan36:52 but E Ethan36:52 done it right out there Like six, eight, Six is awesome. They, Mike West built that company from the ground up with his own money, and never had to bring in an investor. And that's how you need to do it. You know you need to just figure out a way to do it that way and not have to. uh, always bring in an investor every time there's a cash crunch. M Mark_sullivan37:10 yeah, it seems like that's one of the few brands though that has really pulled that off E Ethan37:14 Yeah, I mean, M Mark_sullivan37:15 as far as like building a brand under the same ownership that has started under. I can't really think of too many E Ethan37:19 yeah, ▁qu's to show how smart Mike is. you know, the the way he's kind of handled his business, but you know I wouldn't give up M Mark_sullivan37:25 y, yp. E Ethan37:25 those tech nine years for anything. I mean it was so much fun and uh, working on products something you love and learning that much about business and tons of rad trips, and go into different trade shows and manufact learning how to manufacture products in Europe and China. I mean it was awesome and it was super fun and uh, probably that was my college education. you know M Mark_sullivan37:49 Okay, So like what was like your favorite trip out of all the tech Nine Days? One was like Tech Nine, the full flag flying. Uh, somewhere around the world. E Ethan37:59 Coal and I, We try to go on one like crazy trip every year with the team, and Uh, definitely one that stands out is like going to Moscow for the first time. I think we were like the first crew to go there and kinda shoot in Moscow, and it was just crazy how different it is. You know that from our lives here it was. It was. uh, just kind of eye opening. but we got to do that kind of like every year we'd We'd had the advantage to reach out to it. We had distributors all over the world, you know, so we could just call the distributor and be like Hey, do you guys got snow? And if if they were, if they had snow, they would like, kind of help us out once we got there and treat us really well. You know, get hotels for us. Drive us around. Make it really easy. so we were able to go to all sorts of wild places like we went to Spain and we went to. I mean, we went pretty much everywhere there was snow and we had a distributor. We would go there with the team 'cause after making ten movies or whatever, you know, that was ten rad trips for the movie. But uh, I would say Yeah, going to Moscow the first time kinda really stood out. Um, E Ethan39:02 it was just such a such culture shock. That place. we almost died a couple of times. it was. It was just kinda like nothing, like nothing you'd see shooting around the U. S. You know M Mark_sullivan39:13 When you say you almost died, you' mean like you had runnings with the authorities like you almost died. E Ethan39:18 well me, we had one ends on the florid authorities Every day. It was to the point where we just alternated who was going to pay 'em the hundred dollar bill to let us off. But uh, we almost had A. The traffic there was so crazy. We were on the highway. Coal was driving. I was in the backs. I don't know exactly what happened, but at one point we were on like two wheels, and um, pretty much about to die to the point where we, when we pulled over like muzzy, ran out of the ban and ran out in the field and like started praying or something. and uh, just 'cause it's so crazy over there, people drive like I, there's no laws, you know. I guess that's the only way to explain it. And uh, yeah, so we literally almost died in a car accident. And uh, but yeah, every day. well, like when we get busted, it would be like military with machine guns there to bust to you. But then they'd end up being pretty cool 'cause I'd never seen anybody snowboarding before, so they were actually kind of rad. Luckily, we had a M Mark_sullivan40:12 Okay, Okay, E Ethan40:12 someone to translate, so they would uh tell him what we were doing. Otherwise it might have been different, but yeah, every day we would have to give the A the cops a hundred dollar bill, pretty much M Mark_sullivan40:22 just for your rail spots, Basically E Ethan40:24 just or who it would could be either a driving thing, a rail thing, or just walking through town and they'd give you shit. It's like they basically are like. we can take your passports and bring in to jail, or you can give us a hundred dollars. It's kind of like M Mark_sullivan40:37 right. E Ethan40:37 Mexico, you know, And so you just have a hundred dollar bill ready. You alternate who pays them and move on with your day. you know. M Mark_sullivan40:45 So did the travel get crazier when you went into becoming like a senior photographer full time, or did it get kind of more mellow, more taken care of. As far as like you now, had you know editors or whatever to report on or report to back at the magazine headquarters? E Ethan41:01 Um, well, it was pretty rat, so I would do a trip with Tech nine like that and then I would also get to do, or I would also kind of bundle that up as a feature for the magazine, So it was M Mark_sullivan41:11 Mhm. E Ethan41:11 almost on like a trip to Moscow or anywhere we went. It would also always be a feature for snowboarder since it was such a cool location, so it all kind of went hand in hand, and uh, E Ethan41:24 it was able to give me. I was able to maybe use the magazine's budget for my trip. So it that allowed us to bring another rider for Tech Nine, you know, So it kinda just M Mark_sullivan41:34 So you're double dipping? Basically E Ethan41:34 worked together. Yeah, double dipping. M Mark_sullivan41:38 yeah, E Ethan41:38 I, I wasn't sending invoices to both brands, but I was kind of just making it work together. You know, M Mark_sullivan41:44 right. M Mark_sullivan41:45 were Were you ever able to like get three or four brands involved with paying for your trips? E Ethan41:50 for sure, back in the heyday man, it was nice you could. there was a lot going on. You could. there was a lot more budget than there is today. I mean today there's hardly any budget and you can't ly anywhere 'cause a coved anywhere fun. You know you can't go overseas. so uh, it's a whole different landscape Now. back then it was so easy to get a trip together. As long as it was a cool location, it would be guaranteed to go in the s in in the magazine and then you could send it to another magazine overseas and they would package up the feature, so you'd get the feature and snowboarder in Japan, also in Europe, and so you're able to get paid like three different ways from for from magazines at the time on one trip, not to mention selling photos to brands as well, so uh, yeah, it was a whole different ball gameam back then with photography, I'm hoping M Mark_sullivan42:40 Right? And so E Ethan42:40 they tas come back. M Mark_sullivan42:42 nowadays it' changed. Can you compare you know what it was like in the early two thousands, when the budgets were big to where where it's at today, and like how you can maintain a career as a professional photographer today? Because I know there's not as many print publications today. E Ethan42:59 Yeah, it's crazy how different it is. Um, back in the day, E Ethan43:04 The this is the the biggest difference. I think back in the day I would basically just go out and shoot every day and try to shoot as many different people as I could And there was probably about a ninety percent chance that that photo I shot with that writer would end up printed somewhere and today and by printed somewhere else. I' mean that I would get paid for that photo whether it's an ad or it's in a magazine today. It's almost it's. It's not worth your time to go out and shoot unless you know that photo's already sold for something like. You know. there's going to be an interview on that writer, or you know a particular brand needs a photo of that writer. And so that's the biggest difference. And that's that sucks. You know, because it basically deters you from going out and shooting, because it's like what am I even going to do with this photo now at this point, and so a lot of photoraph ers are only shooting if they're hired for a shoot, so they won't go on a trip and definitely won't go on a trip and spend money their own money, 'cause they're never going to recoup it, You know, back in the day you would definitely recoup it without a even doubt in your mind, and now you hear most of the photographers when they. Say they had a good year. It means they were hired a bunch in advanced to go shoot and back before it was never like that. You would just go out and shoot as much as you possibly could. so it's really changed and uh, it makes it a lot harder. M Mark_sullivan44:32 Do you still have like a lot of contracts with different brands to shoot the writeders? E Ethan44:37 Um. E Ethan44:38 Well in the past year with the bomb hole, it's made it a bit different for me. Um, M Mark_sullivan44:44 Mhm, E Ethan44:44 but I would say, up until I mean, I'm not sure what's gonna happen this season, but up until like last year. Yeah, E Ethan44:51 um, but you really at? for M Mark_sullivan44:52 Yeah, I mean, what. what would your photography look like last year with the pandemic and everything? E Ethan44:57 it was T. It was definitely my roughest season ever. Um, and it was kind of compounded by the fact that Utah didn't get any street snow, so that was M Mark_sullivan45:08 Yeah, E Ethan45:08 kinda not happening. I think we had two days with snow in the streets, and then M Mark_sullivan45:13 hm, E Ethan45:14 when we got out all our snow in the mountains it was when it was like that black rows of uh, avalanche danger. Where every different M Mark_sullivan45:21 yeah, E Ethan45:21 direction was danger and the ski patrol was saying, Don't even like. inbund Its risky. You know, so M Mark_sullivan45:29 Mhm. E Ethan45:29 uh shooting last year was. I mean, I shot a bit, but it was uh, just really hard. A bad year on top of coved just made it almost impossible. But I know a lot of crews still got after it. All the kids that still wanted to get video parks were were driving to where they needed to go. I mean, Dust Box was on the road for like, pretty much the whole winter just following snow. But I don't have that luxury to be gone all winter, nor I don't think I would make the money back if I went away all winter and shot photos. you know, so yes, M Mark_sullivan46:00 Yeah, so now you've E Ethan46:00 it's a different landscape. M Mark_sullivan46:02 and now you've got a third career, maybe fourth career? I'm E Ethan46:06 Yes, M Mark_sullivan46:06 not sure where you're at, but now you now you get to do the bomb hole full time. E Ethan46:10 Yeah, and that's uh, pretty sweet as you know. I mean it's pretty fun just to sit and have conversations with people. and uh, M Mark_sullivan46:18 Yeah, totally E Ethan46:18 you know, like we're doing now, just chopping it up and learning about people and and hearing their story. I mean, everyone seems to have an interesting story, so it's been pretty fun to kind of learn about it, E Ethan46:30 and uh, M Mark_sullivan46:30 yp, E Ethan46:32 definitely taken my focus off a photography a bit, but with cooveto, I guess maybe it was the right time you know, and it's made me actually more excited to go shoot 'cause I haven't shot as much, so it's M Mark_sullivan46:44 Mhm. E Ethan46:44 uh this winter. I'm hoping we're gonna have a good winter so I can get back out there more. but when we have a show M Mark_sullivan46:50 So E Ethan46:50 coming out every week, it's harder though I can't just hit the road anyt time I want unless we're ahead on shows, so it's kind of a. M Mark_sullivan46:56 yeah, so let let's talk about like how the bomb hole came about. What? The kind of like What got you started as far as doing the bomb hole? E Ethan47:05 You know, it's funny, Um, Chris and I, We always go on trips every year and we like always, Jo. He's kind of he started. Uh, he had a show. E Ethan47:15 I forget what it was called. Um, E Ethan47:19 something banter and handry, I don't remember what it was called, But he had a internet show. He was kind of working on. Um. And so he was kind of always messing with the space on Youtube. E Ethan47:30 And uh, we would go on trips and kinda joke about how it would be sick to have something like this so last year, E Ethan47:39 or I guess it was two seasons ago. now, not last season but the season before we were in Uh Kazakstan, E Ethan47:47 Um, on one of those rad trips, And it was Uh, it was for the thirty two movie E Ethan47:52 and Uh Chris. Oh, can you hold on one second? M Mark_sullivan47:56 Yp, E Ethan47:57 someone's out my door. Hold on one second. right. E Ethan48:02 I'm going to pause. You will pick up from Kazakstan Now. E Ethan48:07 I might have to move locations if this is someone from my cheick. E Ethan48:11 Hold on one sacker. M Mark_sullivan48:13 Yeah, E Ethan50:01 Can you hear me M Mark_sullivan50:02 yep, yep, E Ethan50:03 dupe? Sorry about that dude. M Mark_sullivan50:05 no, wors E Ethan50:06 So I was at Kazakstan M Mark_sullivan50:08 yup, E Ethan50:09 right, E Ethan50:10 so M Mark_sullivan50:10 Yup, E Ethan50:10 uh yeah, so Chris and I would go on these trips and we kind of realize the most fun part of the trip was the the time in between the spots when we were in a van and we were just talking shit. and uh, E Ethan50:26 kinda, everyone would always just listen to Chris and I go back and forth. We'd sit in the back kind of trash up to our waist, 'cause we'd been on a trip for who knows how long, and uh, the banter was always the most fun. And so Chris on that trip was like it would be sick to do a podcast And you're like the dude I'd like to do it with. And so the whole time we were on that trip, we were uh, kind of telling O. other people on the trip. Like what do you think if we did this and we were like we had a list of like fifty names going. And E Ethan51:01 and uh, I didn't really know how serious he was, though I was kind of just like. Oh, this is dope. This would be super fun. And so we got home from the trip and then Chris went on another trip, and uh, kinda him and his girlfriend broke up. Um, thankfully they're back together now, which is red, but I think that E Ethan51:21 time of being uh, all of a sudden single, and it's also right when the pandemic kicked in, So he's alone at his house. He has like, can't go out and see people. He. He doesn't really have anything to to focus on 'cause Pro riding's kind of at a halt, so all of a sudden he just put. he, just all of a sudden ordered all this stuff for podcasting. He ordered like a road podcaster, some mikes, and uh started messing around figuring out how to use it, E Ethan51:51 and uh, all of a sudden just started hitting me up with like a test video like I think we could figure this out and we kinda just said Uh, You know, consistency would need to be the key, so Wed need to make sure we put out a show every week, No matter if somebody likes it or doesn't like it, we just need to keep doing it, and uh, E Ethan52:12 I mean, we looked at your model, you know I. Mean, you're the one who's been doing it for a long time. Chris kinda wanted to bring a video element to it 'cause that's what he was doing with his his other banter Youtube show. E Ethan52:24 Um, E Ethan52:26 so yeah, we just kinda all of a sudden. It just we just boom. Let's do it. Let's have a podcast. us to interview somebody. And uh, we kinda debated who we would interview first and it ended up being just in. Benny and his story was just crazy, so like we knew we had a pretty rad thing going, Um, 'cause he really just got honest with us about so many things. Is his uh, drug use in the past and what went on with his career and uh, so boom we put it out and it was when coved was going, so I think we had a a captive audience E Ethan53:01 and uh, we kind of just went from there and went one at a time. We had no sponsors. We didn't really, uh, know what we were doing whatsoever. I mean, I'm sure in the early episodes be kind of just sounded like dip shits. Um, but I think maybe that was a good thing, too, 'cause people like to laugh, and Chris and I being dip shits maybe is a good thing. And uh, and we knew our show needed to be different than yours because you already had that market kind of locked in. So Uss Beingian Idiots was kinda like the line, you know, And then also with the bomb hole, we wanted to, kinda E Ethan53:35 as we were idiots, also get into serious things that happened to them. But then no one to lighten it up with our dip shittery, and uh, M Mark_sullivan53:44 yeah. E Ethan53:44 yes, we just just kinda went from his garage and started going from the house. And since we had that cop captive audience, I think uh, it kind of helped us out at all. This kind of went at the right time. You know, timing's kind of everything. Now we M Mark_sullivan53:58 y. E Ethan53:58 got a whole office too, so it's like it's crazy Just how fast it's been moving. M Mark_sullivan54:03 So tell me about getting in the office. Like At what point where you guys are like? Okay, I think we got this, you know, to the point where we should have an office and have like a permanent studio and all that this is a real deal E Ethan54:14 Um, the point when we got decided to at the office is when I think Chris just couldn't handle his house had turned into a full business. We had somebody showing up doing shipping out of his guest room, and you know he's back together with his girlfriend, and this this dude showing up the ship whenever he wants kind of odd hours. and 'cause it's not real structure when you're at somebody's house, you know, and then there's M Mark_sullivan54:36 right E Ethan54:36 another. Uh, We hired this girl jewels. He was like our our office manager and she's working from his kitchen table. And then guests are like. Russell Winfield came in to do his episode and he was supposed to stay two days. He ends up on Chris's couch for two weeks, which was awesome 'cause I have Uncle Russ there as great, you know, but all of a sudden his house just wasn't his house anymore, you know, so I think that's M Mark_sullivan54:59 right? E Ethan54:59 the point when Chris was just like we. We gotta figure something out here like it's definitely you know, an expense that we didn't want to pay. But it was just like we. half we can't. We're outgrowing his house. You know we had Jamie Thomas come in and tell us like we could never leave the garage 'cause it's like such a cool feeling and we were just like we can't just like Chris doesn't have a garage anymore. It's like I. I had heard the nine clublu guys. Actually, they did the same thing. They started at their apartment and then their apartment's just our office now and they moved out of it so we would have basically either M Mark_sullivan55:31 yeah, yeah, E Ethan55:31 had to move out of Chris's house. He wouldn't live there anymore. else. We get an office, so we decided to get in office and Chris is, Chris is crazy, just forthinking and uh, bigger picture, thinking like he always has all these ideas of all right. We need to now hire a graphic designer to help with Merge, 'cause Merch is selling. We need to do this. We needed to do that and I'm always like man. How do we just start putting some money in our pockets? He's like, Oh, we gotta think bigger, and thankfully he's like that because that I think has been the key to our growth is like Okay. If we hire this person, it's gonna exponentially down the line. help us, or we can think small and give ourselves each a couple of thousand dollars. Now you know, so that's kind of uh, been just Chris's. I think what he does is take his drive of a pro snowboarder that he learned to kind of come up. It's not easy. and he's applying that to the podcast Youtube world, and just putting in a hundred and twenty percent And it's and it's working. You know. He's pretty intense. M Mark_sullivan56:32 y. yp. E Ethan56:32 He's had a lot of concussion, so sometimes it getsnarly but at the he always has the right idea, though, so it's pretty cool. M Mark_sullivan56:40 So what's your role in all this? You just show up and do the interviews or I mean, it sounds like it was taking place at his house for a while, and his house was the office. M Mark_sullivan56:49 Would you just show up like twenty minutes before the interview and get it rolling? Was your role? E Ethan56:55 Um, he would always have me show up like an hour beforehand, just to make sure I was going to be on time, as you learned. I'm not so punctual when we were putting this podcast together. E Ethan57:05 Um, so yeah, I'd always show up an hour in advance and then I would work at my house. E Ethan57:11 Um, like when we started like, we just kind of dibbed up what we needed to do like. I kind of started the patrion. Well, he started E Ethan57:20 doing something else. At first. I would answer all the comments on Instigram and he would do all the ones on Youtube. So at first when it was just the two of us, we just kind of split up the jobs, E Ethan57:32 and and uh, just did what we could, And then as we got to the point where were at maximum overload, you know we'd hire somebody like we hired rego, Um, this dude in Salt Lake, who's just crushing our social media now, and uh yeah, we'll just we needed. Kinda Chris. Chris was at his band with with editing, too, 'cause he was doing the editing at first, and M Mark_sullivan57:54 Mhm? E Ethan57:53 that'snarly when you got three cameras, one for each person plus your uh, your go pro, and you got to sink all the different sound and then edit each camera. Each time everyone's talking, I mean each video we, we do a three hour recording It takes. I don't know. It probably takes like nine hours of editing. So we eventually hired this guy Paul to help with that, and that's been huge, so we kinda would just hire as we needed now that we're in the office. Though it's sweet, we just show up office hours and get done what we need to get done, and we have people in in place to help with certain things, And you know we realize our times, folk. like focusing on the show is where it all started, so making a good show is really where we need to like, put Chris and Myce energy into and then just makes sure everyone's. Everyone's really excited to be working with us, so they're all very passionate. and um, we have a kick ass team, so it's been pretty rad. and having that office has really created a uh, creative space to like. go in and talk about stuff. And you know we get their feedback as much as we can, so if we're blowing it, they'll tell us, and they're honest with everything. And so yeah, we just have a kick ass group of people working on it now, so it's pretty pretty cool and I think that office has really helped us. And like we're seven episodes ahead right now, We before we were never able to get seven episodes ahead. You know, we' usually be like one episode ahead and then panicking. the next one's gonna come out, You know, M Mark_sullivan59:24 Okay, So now you have like a runway for yourself, so you're not like. Just like getting ready for next Tuesdays episode or E Ethan59:31 Yeah, panicking. M Mark_sullivan59:31 whatever? So that's yeah, that. that's probably a good thing. How many people are the office now? E Ethan59:38 Um, E Ethan59:39 there's uh. I think all together there's like seven people that. Uh, M Mark_sullivan59:43 seven? E Ethan59:44 not all of them come in full time. Some are M Mark_sullivan59:46 Mhm. E Ethan59:46 just in and out of there, Um, myself, Chris and Jewless, the office manager are like full time, But then we have our graphic guy in Drake. He's coming in. Um like three days a week. Tuckers in their full time. Who does our shipping rigo? comes in, but he doesn't really need to be there. He just comes in to. He does our social media so he's more boots on the ground, and then Paul's editing, and uh, Ronky is our agent and helps us with the brands and all that, so I think altogether, I hope I'm not missing anybody, But there's like seven of us and uh, you know that's the team at this point and I don't see M Mark_sullivan1:00:25 Yeah, yeah, E Ethan1:00:25 us needing more people And it's just more about taking care of the crew, E Ethan1:00:30 and uh, having everyone grow as we grow. E Ethan1:00:33 Um, M Mark_sullivan1:00:34 okay, so here's a question. It's like not every interview is easy to do. Some people have more uh stuff going on in their lives. some people only no snowboarding. Have you had any interviews where you were like? this is going to be great and then you sit down to do the interview and you're like Oh man. that was tough. Actually, E Ethan1:00:53 yeah, Lucas magoon, E Ethan1:00:56 only M Mark_sullivan1:00:56 yeah, E Ethan1:00:56 because he gets so sidetracked E Ethan1:01:00 and he kinda he got really stoned E Ethan1:01:04 and M Mark_sullivan1:01:04 Mhm. E Ethan1:01:05 it was maybe hard to understand him And he went on for like four and a half for five hours E Ethan1:01:11 and uh, Chris was just like Dude, what are we going to do here and we chopped it all up and sen it to Lucas And he was just like this is perfect And so we were like All right. Let's just put it out and we put it out and people loved it. So we just kind of realize that sometimes E Ethan1:01:28 we just gotta like. look at it a different way. I. I noticed the. M Mark_sullivan1:01:31 yeah, yeah. E Ethan1:01:31 I mean, and he had a lot of awesome stuff to say in that five hours. it was more just harder to chop up. Let's say, E Ethan1:01:38 Um, and M Mark_sullivan1:01:38 y. E Ethan1:01:39 maybe we should just put out all five hours. Who knows? but there are some people you get like a young person in there who hasn't lived as much as an older person. So yeah, maybe they only know snowboarding. And and that makes it not as interesting for some people. But then the snowboard heads love it 'cause it's just all snowboarding. So it's it's I've just kind of found that you're not go to make everybody happy, so you just gotta do your best. Put it out there. Some people are gonna love it. Some people might not like it, but either way they're hopefully gonna watch it and just kind of take it from there. you know, M Mark_sullivan1:02:12 What was your favorite interview? Like the one where you just it just went perfectly. E Ethan1:02:16 Um, My favorite isn't out yet. It was Uh, Jason Allise E Ethan1:02:21 and we did it. Uh, I want to say, like two weeks ago when he was in town for the street league and man M Mark_sullivan1:02:27 Mhm. E Ethan1:02:28 one, he's a professional talker. You know, he has his own radio show and too, his story is just insane and his level of honesty is just I don't know. It's inspiring, Um, and that to me in the show that we only had like an hour and a half 'cause he was so busy out here, so we had to just like sit in. Make like we couldn't really bullshit 'cause usually we spend like five or six hours with people and we only had an hour and a half total with him. We like to like talk shit for a little while. First, maybe have some food, you know, like just kick it and get to know each other, but with him it was like All right, let's jump in the booth, and the second we hit record, he was just on and uh it. I think as far it's not out yet. we'll see how it's received, but it's I think it's my favorite episode we recorded yet, E Ethan1:03:14 but I like him all M Mark_sullivan1:03:15 okay now, E Ethan1:03:15 for different reasons. M Mark_sullivan1:03:17 yeah, I mean, what was like? What prompted the decision to feature? also not just snowboarders but also skateboarders and skiers and other athletes as well, E Ethan1:03:28 You know what started that decision is, we were chilling one day at Chris's house, and Jeremy Jones called us up and he was like Hey, do you guys have any interest in interviewing Jamie Thomas, E Ethan1:03:42 And uh, he was like I could get him here tomorrow night so we had no time to plan or anything, but we're like Jae Thomas, Are you kidding me? Of course, like we just were like. Let's do this, and uh, we got him in the booth and it was awesome. I mean, look, we all looked up to him growing up his skateboarding and he's such a interesting dude with the business he has going on and just his life story is awesome. and uh, it was well received. so we kind of thought to ourselve E. maybe we should explore other sports. Um. skiing is kind of the same way. You know. We just got the opportunity to kinda showcase two pretty cool skiers, E Ethan1:04:24 Um, and it was the same thing like we're friends with those guys. So, and they both snowboard as well, Um, and then the ski community was so stoked on it. Um, They, I was at Mammouth at the end of the season and a bunch of skiers just came up to me and we're like, Oh, you guys have the best the best podcast in skiing and we were like, Oh, we've only M Mark_sullivan1:04:43 No, E Ethan1:04:43 done skiers, you know, and they're like, Oh, it's just so much better than everything out there, so we kinda just decided. Hey, why not? let's let's kinda branch out and it, also for me, it goes back to the tech nine days, realizing like when summer hits, it's tough. E Ethan1:04:59 Um, M Mark_sullivan1:04:59 yeah, E Ethan1:04:59 maybe winter brands aren't gonna wantnna sponsor. you know, And and we felt that a little bit this summer. They definitely their money's better spent now you know until Christmas, So I think that's a thought too like you know. How are we gonna transcend snowboarding. And uh, and we try to get people in that snowboard as well, or or their friends of snowboarding. And and uh, it also helps Ronkies our manager, and he's a lot of their managers too, so he'll just kind of send them our away. And then M Mark_sullivan1:05:28 H. E Ethan1:05:28 uh, you know when we look at our analytics on Youtube, the next biggest watch show is the Nine club, So it's obvious that E Ethan1:05:38 the people are watching our show skateboard. You know, so that's why we got Jason Allis in there, and then we got Kelly Hart from the nightclub Nine Club in there as well. And uh, it kinda just makes sense, you know snowboarder skateboard, and and vice versa. Maybe a lot of skaters don't snowboard, but snowboarders seemed to skateboard. And and it's just cool stories. You know cool stories and meet these people M Mark_sullivan1:06:02 yeah. Okay, so like E Ethan1:06:02 mountain biking, And well, that was a stretch, but it still uh, stoked a lot of people out. M Mark_sullivan1:06:08 Yeah, M Mark_sullivan1:06:09 are are there any sports you're not going to cover? Is there anything off limits? E Ethan1:06:12 I would say we're just more focused on action sports, you know, 'cause like I didn't know mountain bikers. M Mark_sullivan1:06:18 What? What are action sports? though? I mean it's like it's getting a wider and wider E Ethan1:06:22 That is true. What M Mark_sullivan1:06:22 definition. I mean, it's all olympiced out now. I mean gymnastics might be extreme. Now. Who knows? E Ethan1:06:27 that is true. Huh, E Ethan1:06:29 yeah, but they're not really extreme until they're like they're doing what the mountain bikes are doing on the rampage and gymnastic cart wheels down some hundred foot cliff face. I guess you know, like I didn't even know mountain bikers were doing that. M Mark_sullivan1:06:43 Yeah, Yeah, I mean, but what happens when when runkies like man, we got this great scooter rider for you guys. You going to take a scooter scooterist? E Ethan1:06:49 That's probably where we draw the line. M Mark_sullivan1:06:51 You going to draw the line there E Ethan1:06:51 You know what it quite depends on on their character and what their story is. You know. E Ethan1:06:51 You know what it quite depends on on their character and what their story is. You know. M Mark_sullivan1:06:57 right? Right if they got something going on E Ethan1:06:58 I, I shouldn't say no until you kind of hear the story about the person. If it's interesting and it adds to our listeners, you know, then it's cool, I guess, 'cause that's a big thing. M Mark_sullivan1:07:07 right. E Ethan1:07:07 You know. you want to figure out how to add to your listeners lives. And if you can make ' laugh or make them think it's it's a win. you know. M Mark_sullivan1:07:16 Yeah, totally okay. So like what? What are you doing new this year? Like what's new for the bomb hole this year? And like, what are you looking forward to like doing in the future here with the bomb hole? E Ethan1:07:27 Um, you know we are. Uh, we're doing a bomb hole snowboarding event at Bright in in March E Ethan1:07:36 or April, M Mark_sullivan1:07:36 Okay, E Ethan1:07:36 first week of April, and it's called the Bomb Ho cup. I mean our, our. Our whole idea of the company is bringing the community together. You know, Like what ways can we bring people together in these wild times? And and maybe it's through listening to us talk and introducing people to the the people we're talking to and you get another story. But we also figured why not get people together and meet each other. You know, so the the contest is not just for pros, it's for anybody to show up and all levels, and and more of just a a ripping weekend. You know, we're gonna have brands, kind of set up tents and and demo boards and have uh food there, and pup beer will be there and just make it a hangout. You know, a whole weekend. And so that's new for us. Um. we're also gonna. Chris and I are want to go on a trip this year with a crew of people like that have been on the bomb hole, and uh, go on like a trip with the riders like a trip like we've always done the idea that kinda spawned the podcast from the beginning, and uh, have it in the Mac. one of the magazines or something, and do interviews from the road and all that. So we're talking about doing that, and uh, really just trying to hone in our craft and get better at it, 'cause as you know, you know, you learn every time you get on and record, so I think you can definitely get better. M Mark_sullivan1:08:57 yeah, oh yeah. now, I mean, what's your? what? I mean? what do you feel about the state of magazine? you photographer? You' now a podcaster, Maybe the largest media outlet and all the snowboarding. I mean, E Ethan1:09:07 Mhm. M Mark_sullivan1:09:07 let's talk about like where the magazine's at, where the video iss at what happened. I mean this is a different world we're living in now. E Ethan1:09:15 Yeah, it's crazy right. It's uh, at M Mark_sullivan1:09:17 Yeah, E Ethan1:09:17 one point last winter and that's another reason. why didn't shoot much. I wasn't sure if there's going to be any magazines. and now, M Mark_sullivan1:09:24 Mhm, E Ethan1:09:24 thankfully, you know there's torament slush snowboard snowboarder might still be around. I have no idea. E Ethan1:09:32 Um, so now at least there are some magazines, but they're all still just trying to figure it out and they're probably fighting for dollars. and uh, it's just a a crazy landscape and I think also brands aren't excited to just sponsor a video like they used to. You know, so it's just riders, kind of making their own parts. Um, as a media outlet, we've talked about putting rider parts on our channel as well, E Ethan1:09:58 and and putting for riders, maybe riders that we've interviewed before you know, letting that be where they're goingnna launch their video part, So I mean it's all stuff we're discussing. But yeah, the landscape's just changed. I'm excited for when slush and snowboard actually come out, so we can see what's going on. You know, see what we're working with and I'm sure, I mean they're M Mark_sullivan1:10:18 Yeah, E Ethan1:10:18 They're run by incredible people, so there're gonna be strong magazines. Um, the only thing weird for them is that there's probably a lot less photos floating around because of last year how weird it was. E Ethan1:10:31 but I'm M Mark_sullivan1:10:31 that's true. E Ethan1:10:31 sure they'll I'm sure there's enough to make a strong magazine. You don't need that many. you know, and they're all not M Mark_sullivan1:10:37 Yeah, E Ethan1:10:37 putting out. I mean, Torment puts out one issue right, so that's pretty easy to fill up. slosh. I think's doing like four or five, and snowboards maybe doing three or something. too. M Mark_sullivan1:10:49 it seems like though there is a lot less people aspiring to be photographers today than say ten or fifteen years ago. E Ethan1:10:55 Yeah, I mean in town now there's like Bob Plum and myself and a couple of others where there used to be like fifteen that you're competing with. you know. So it's M Mark_sullivan1:11:06 Yeah, E Ethan1:11:07 uh, it's a whole different landscape and it's just I think it's just hard to survive. You know E Ethan1:11:12 brands aren't as M Mark_sullivan1:11:13 So E Ethan1:11:13 quick to pay. M Mark_sullivan1:11:15 what what advice do you have for someone who is trying to make a living as a photographer today? E Ethan1:11:19 Man, I would never want to say, Don't do it because there's always a way to recreate the wheel and figure out how to be successful. I mean, look at black. That dude's making so much money, E Ethan1:11:33 and he's you know, he's working in all sports. Now he's shooting mountain biking. His girlfriend's a top skier, so he's shooting skiing. He's sh. He's really smart about the brands he works with and he's making an amazing living. so um, a blot of making an insane living. I'm sure Bob's killing it as well. So there's there's definitely still a way to do it. You just gotta get out there. Do it your way, and uh, and I guess gotta always be ready to change with the times and right now we're just at a one of those times where everything's changing and you just gotta figure out the next way to do it. You know, M Mark_sullivan1:12:10 Do you think there is like a life expectancy for photographers? How like guys like you know? ▁zacher kind of moved on beyond snowboard photography, Or a guy like Gary Land was a snowboard photographer and went beyond it. Do you think there's like a life expectancy to being in the trenches if you will, in the snowboard media? E Ethan1:12:28 Um, you know, I've thought about that a lot. I think ▁zacher was never passionate about it. Like some of us where I don't know Gary, so I can't speak to him, but I think ▁zacher, always aspired to move to the top tier of photography. He went to photo school and I think just kind of fell in the snowboarding, and it paid well, so he stuck with it and he saw that change a little bit and then moved to where he was always headed. You know he's so talented. Um, I mean, I plan on being in the trenches as long as possible, And look at blotto. He's older than I am. He's still out there going strong, Um, you look at skateboarding. You know theres guys like Blayback. He's been shooting forever and he's still shooting strong, so I think it just depends on the passion and if you're able to survive doing it and you just gotta always recreate and team up with brands 'cause they seem to pay better than other people. And E Ethan1:13:21 and hustle it's hard for me with the podcast 'cause it takes up a lot of time, so someone' going to have to figure out what that looks like in the future. But um, I think uh, it just depends on the your back to your question. It just depends on the passion they have, and if somebody wants to, they can probably do it as long as possible, 'cause it's not. you don't have to like, get out there and go to Alaska and be in the nuarliest conditions ever. You know. It's not too hard to just go up and shoot ▁x games or something. You know. that's pretty easy. so I imagine you could do it as long as he wanted. M Mark_sullivan1:13:54 Yeah, okay, E Ethan1:13:54 The streets are pretty mellow too. You know E Ethan1:13:54 The streets are pretty mellow too. You know M Mark_sullivan1:13:56 so so how about for for podcasting? Are you going to ever run out of Guess are going to run out interesting people to talk to. Do you think ever? I mean that's question. A lot of people ask me Actually, if I would run out of people. E Ethan1:14:05 if people actually always ask us that, And uh, M Mark_sullivan1:14:09 Yeah, E Ethan1:14:09 I feel like there's so many interesting people and you've been doing it. How long now? M Mark_sullivan1:14:16 I don't know most up to three hundred episodes now, So got a lot. E Ethan1:14:19 Yeah, and I feel like there's still plenty of people for you to do so. And then there's going to be new people and E Ethan1:14:26 I, That's a question often asked. and I feel like No. we're never going to run out of interesting people. I hope anyways. M Mark_sullivan1:14:34 It's funny because it. It's like there's this pressure to interview a certain type of person who the industry maybe is behind financially, but maybe not the most interesting say of interviewes. And do you do you find that you run into that a lot where there's someone who the industry is getting behind who actually is not a good interview or E Ethan1:14:53 Um, M Mark_sullivan1:14:53 is not that interesting when you do the preca with them? E Ethan1:14:56 we're pretty new to us. I don't know if that's happened to us yet. Um, we do have one rule that, Umm, I should probably say on here, because a lot of people don't know it. Um, don't ask us to get interviewed Will come to you E Ethan1:15:12 because, uh, it just creates an awkward conversation. Sometimes if we're not ready to interview somebody you know. M Mark_sullivan1:15:18 How many people have asked to be interviewed on the bomb hole? E Ethan1:15:20 Oh, there's better more than you would think that Sliideing the D Ms. that aren't even professional snowboarders. Let's say they just you know. I'm I'm a. I'm a hardcore snowboarder Like I should be interviewed just for that perspective. And it's just easier if we come to you so we can avoid an awkward conversation. And and uh, so that's kind of our rule. M Mark_sullivan1:15:38 That that could be the basis for a great interview. Though, just making it super super awkward right from the beginning. E Ethan1:15:43 Yeah, right from the start right. M Mark_sullivan1:15:45 Yeah, it's like. so. Uh, so you you ask to be on the show? E Ethan1:15:49 Yeah, now, what? what have you got? M Mark_sullivan1:15:49 How? Wh? what's up? What? What did you want to talk about? Anyhow? E Ethan1:15:53 But they probably have a really interesting story who knows you know, and it's M Mark_sullivan1:15:57 Yeah, but it be pretty. E Ethan1:15:57 up to us as intervenes to bring it out. M Mark_sullivan1:16:00 It'd be pretty funny to put people in E Ethan1:16:02 Yeah, put 'em on. Bls. Itd probably getous. M Mark_sullivan1:16:02 Blas. though. So what? What's your favorite part? What's your favorite part of doing the podcast? Like? what's what's the thing that keeps you going. It keeps you excited to keep doing more. E Ethan1:16:11 um man, just sitting in there having these powerful conversations with. I mean, lately we've had some pretty amazing people in there. I just hope some of their uh, what they have rubs off on me. You know, because these people have some just crazy outlooks on life that are so positive and you know, like we had Ken block in there and just the stuff that dudes done incredible. You know, Like Li, being able to hear those stories straight from their mouth to me is the the most exciting part of it. you know. And and getting to know these people on a personal level, and hearing kind of how they carve their own path, Because that's really what it is. These people seem to carve their own path. No storyories the same. you know, so it's really cool to kinda hear that and uh, I don't know. Just learn. learn from everybody and get to know ' that. that's definitely the interviews are my favorite part. M Mark_sullivan1:17:00 Yeah, I mean, I'd say though that, like you know, back in the nineties two thousand, because snowboarding wasn't such like a professional living, a lot of people had a lot more story involved, Whereas today it seems like you have to just dedicate all of your time becoming a good snowboarder. And so there just isn't time to be like uh, M Mark_sullivan1:17:20 a passionate fisherman or something else on the side. E Ethan1:17:21 That's true. Huh, Yeah, that is so true. Also say conus. M Mark_sullivan1:17:24 You know that's what. That's what I've I started to see anyway. E Ethan1:17:26 Yeah, They, all they could do is work out. eat right snowboard and they have to have M Mark_sullivan1:17:31 right, E Ethan1:17:31 all the repetitions. and yeah, they don't have as much room for life, huh M Mark_sullivan1:17:36 uh, E Ethan1:17:37 w. M Mark_sullivan1:17:37 maybe maybe I'm not sure, but I would say that I find like the E Ethan1:17:38 I imagine as they get older, they will, though you know. M Mark_sullivan1:17:42 I. I would say so I would hope so. anyway. you know, but it it's interesting to see. E Ethan1:17:44 Yeah, it's like the nineteen year olds are the tough ones because they all they know is snowboarding. But then there's M Mark_sullivan1:17:51 Yeah, E Ethan1:17:51 somebody that wants to hear about how they got good, So it's interesting for somebody to hear how how they made it as a nineteen year old. That got to be the best you know. M Mark_sullivan1:17:59 right, so I mean, here's the question. how did you get so good to still be doing this thirty years later? E Ethan1:18:05 I don't know it. just uh, staying with it. I guess just not giving up and I guess maybe that a lot of people we interview that's kind of their. The thing you learn from them too is just to never take no for an answer and just keep trying. I guess you know, like Chris and I always joke, we'd We've thrown a lot of shit at the walls and seeing what sticks, I guess is the key, and uh, hopefully the bomb hole sticks because I thought techn was sticked, but that went for twenty years, but I guess I at least got paid well for twenty years, so that's nice, but yeah, it's M Mark_sullivan1:18:39 Y. E Ethan1:18:39 just throwing shit at the wall, seeing what works and and uh, putting your heart into it and staying passionate and enjoyin what you do right. M Mark_sullivan1:18:47 yeah, well, it seems like the bomb hole is working out pretty nicely right now. As far as like you have an office, you work with seven people, and you get to interview all sorts of interesting people and hear their stories, so let's that's a win in my book anyway. E Ethan1:19:00 Yeah, it's been awesome. It's fun. The coolest part too, is uh, the feedback we get when we have a crazy episode like maybe Jess, Camerra's, or uh, deseriss. you know, with some real narly mental health issues and hearing how that helps somebody and maybe save their life is Uh, M Mark_sullivan1:19:20 Mhm. E Ethan1:19:21 is crazy. Um, we actually had a I had someone contact me. They uh started watching the bomb hole because a Lizard King or a skateboarder, and uh M Mark_sullivan1:19:32 Mhm, E Ethan1:19:32 they went. They watched Lizard Kings episode and they went to the bar and they just left Youtube running and he decided when he got home he was going to kill himself. He had everything ready and he sat back down in his computer and Desere Episode was playing. Talking about, Like staying around one more day, and and just not doing it, and uh home, he stayed around another day and is still around today and hearing stories like that is amazing. Know like that makes it all worth it. E Ethan1:20:02 And it's kind of just like just fate that that episode happened to be on while he sat down again at the end of the night. like four hours later. You know. so M Mark_sullivan1:20:11 Yeah, it's like Uh, E Ethan1:20:11 that kind of got. Make it worth it. M Mark_sullivan1:20:14 words have like a different kind of power than than images do. Even though E Ethan1:20:18 Yeah, M Mark_sullivan1:20:18 a picture is worth a thousand words. hearing someone's personal story and hear then be vulnerable. You know in those moments is like that, something that really isn't replaced in another medium. I don't think. E Ethan1:20:30 Yeah, exactly. and you can read an interview in a magazine. It just doesn't hit you the same way as hearing their passion and their voice and what they're thinking. You know. M Mark_sullivan1:20:39 Yp, indeed, indeed, so E Ethan1:20:41 Yeah, so yeah, those those things make it all worth it. I think just hearing how it affects people that are watching and listening to the show. M Mark_sullivan1:20:49 okay. So if you could interview anyone for your next show, who would it be anyone like Out of the sky? who could you pick out of the sky? Someone you haven't gotten yet? E Ethan1:20:57 Uh, I wantnna interview Post Malone, just 'cause he's like he M Mark_sullivan1:21:01 Okay? E Ethan1:21:01 lives about a mile from me, E Ethan1:21:03 so M Mark_sullivan1:21:04 Really? E Ethan1:21:03 I've always. I've always joked'd, be sick to meet him at the Seven eleven. See if he wants to come on the podcast. And uh, have him say yes, and then he and then we do it. But uh, M Mark_sullivan1:21:12 how did he end up a mile from you? E Ethan1:21:14 I don't know. Do he like lives right in Beors neighborhood? He just has like a sick house up there, or I do M Mark_sullivan1:21:20 Really? E Ethan1:21:20 know actually how he ended up there. He. he was, uh, he got like robbed in California and was so fed up with their gun laws. he wanted to move to Utah, where his whole crew could actually be armed. And so uh, now they're here and they have guns on their hips and they're not going to get robbed again And he has like the a sick house, just like a mile away from me. M Mark_sullivan1:21:40 Wow? Well, that would be a pretty interesting interview. I would say, definitely not from the Action Sports Wheel House, But E Ethan1:21:46 Not from the action sports. M Mark_sullivan1:21:46 Uh would probably be interesting. nonetheless, E Ethan1:21:49 Yeah, but I think I wouldn't uh, not do it. M Mark_sullivan1:21:53 Anyone, you wouldn't interview anyone there Like No, No Trump. I don't care what he wants. No Trump, or is there anyone who would interview? E Ethan1:21:59 I, actually, I would love to interview Tru just as see what's up with them. You know, M Mark_sullivan1:22:05 Yeah, give them a forensic analysis. E Ethan1:22:06 I've heard he's a pretty chirming dude, though, maybe you'd end up liking them after and that would suck. M Mark_sullivan1:22:10 You probably would. do you hear all about his cheddar biscuits? E Ethan1:22:14 Yeah, E Ethan1:22:15 I think M Mark_sullivan1:22:15 You'd have a lot to talk about with that. E Ethan1:22:15 he justmingles other people's. He swindles other people's chedtar biscuits. So and it uses M Mark_sullivan1:22:20 I, I think he does. E Ethan1:22:20 other people's money to make his money. M Mark_sullivan1:22:22 I. I think he does. I don't think there's a lot of. I don't know anyone you E Ethan1:22:26 Yeah, M Mark_sullivan1:22:26 wouldn't interview. Though, E Ethan1:22:28 uh, I don't know, man. I would take that case by case right, M Mark_sullivan1:22:32 Yep. E Ethan1:22:33 just because M Mark_sullivan1:22:34 interesting. Okay, E Ethan1:22:34 you just never know who's got a rat story. M Mark_sullivan1:22:37 yeah, okay, so where do you see yourself in like five years? Ten years are going to be doing the bomb hole? Is this like the new thing? Audio? Is that going to be a audio on video? Is that the new thing or are you going to? you know? Keep just in being involved with snowboarding wherever that takes you? E Ethan1:22:52 Um, I would say both, hopefully, um, E Ethan1:22:56 hopefully they just go hand in hand. you know, I mean my passions for snowboarding. It's been good to me over the years, E Ethan1:23:03 and uh, I'm definitely really enjoying what we're doing at the bomb hole, so uh, yeah, hopefully I'm able to maintain a foot in both worlds, you know M Mark_sullivan1:23:14 Cool. Well, thank you for the interview, Eth, and I think that's a pretty good one. and E Ethan1:23:18 Du. M Mark_sullivan1:23:19 uh, M Mark_sullivan1:23:20 yeah, come me one second here.