109. Danijar Hafner - Gaming our way to AGI
Until recently, AI systems have been narrow — they’ve only been able to perform the specific tasks that they were explicitly trained for. And while narrow systems are clearly useful, the holy grain of AI is to build more flexible, general systems. But that can’t be done without good performance metrics that we can optimize for — or that we can at least use to measure generalization ability. Somehow, we need to figure out what number needs to go up in order to bring us closer to generally-capable agents. That’s the question we’ll be exploring on this episode of the podcast, with Danijar Hafner. Danijar is a PhD student in artificial intelligence at the University of Toronto with Jimmy Ba and Geoffrey Hinton and researcher at Google Brain and the Vector Institute. Danijar has been studying the problem of performance measurement and benchmarking for RL agents with generalization abilities. As part of that work, he recently released Crafter, a tool that can procedurally generate complex environments that are a lot like Minecraft, featuring resources that need to be collected, tools that can be developed, and enemies who need to be avoided or defeated. In order to succeed in a Crafter environment, agents need to robustly plan, explore and test different strategies, which allow them to unlock certain in-game achievements. Crafter is part of a growing set of strategies that researchers are exploring to figure out how we can benchmark and measure the performance of general-purpose AIs, and it also tells us something interesting about the state of AI: increasingly, our ability to define tasks that require the right kind of generalization abilities is becoming just as important as innovating on AI model architectures. Danijar joined me to talk about Crafter, reinforcement learning, and the big challenges facing AI researchers as they work towards general intelligence on this episode of the TDS podcast. *** Intro music: - Artist: Ron Gelinas - Track Title: Daybreak Chill Blend (original mix) - Link to Track: https://youtu.be/d8Y2sKIgFWc *** Chapters: 0:00 Intro 2:25 Measuring generalization 5:40 What is Crafter? 11:10 Differences between Crafter and Minecraft 20:10 Agent behavior 25:30 Merging scaled models and reinforcement learning 29:30 Data efficiency 38:00 Hierarchical learning 43:20 Human-level systems 48:40 Cultural overlap 49:50 Wrap-up