E25: Jon Askonas on 2nd Order Effects of AI, the Media Ecology of Reality, and Conservatism
Erik Torenberg sits down with Jon Askonas to look at the impact of disruptive technology in important areas like the media, religion, culture, and politics. Jon is an assistant professor of politics at Catholic University, a senior fellow at the Foundation for American Innovation and a writer for publications like The New Atlantis and Compact. We are proudly sponsored by Vanta. Get $1000 off Vanta with https://www.vanta.com/upstream -- Please support our sponsors: Beehiiv | Shopify | Mercury | Vanta Shopify: https://shopify.com/torenberg for a $1/month trial period Shopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business. Shopify powers 10% of all ecommerce in the US. And Shopify's the global force behind Allbirds, Rothy's, and Brooklinen, and 1,000,000s of other entrepreneurs across 175 countries. From their all-in-one ecommerce platform, to their in-person POS system – wherever and whatever you're selling, Shopify's got you covered. Sign up for $1/month trial period: https://shopify.com/torenberg. -- Looking to give your startup a competitive edge? Meet Mercury: https://mercury.com/ Mercury is banking for ambitious companies—a modern partner that can provide you with the tools and resources you need to turn your startup into the best version of itself. It’s software built to help you scale, with safety and stability, when you need to — whether you're a team of two, or a team of 1,000. Join more than 100,000 startups on Mercury, the powerful and intuitive way for ambitious companies to bank. Mercury is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services are provided by Choice Financial Group and involve bank and trust members FDIC. -- Compliance doesn’t have to be complicated. In fact, with Vanta it can be super simple. Vanta automates the pricey, time-consuming process of prepping for SOC 2, ISO 27001, HIPAA, and more. With Vanta, you can save up to 400 hours and 85% of costs. Vanta scales with your business, helping you successfully enter new markets, land bigger deals, and earn customer loyalty. Bonus? Upstream listeners get $1000 off Vanta. Just go to https://www.vanta.com/upstream -- TIMESTAMPS: (01:00) Episode Preview (03:00) Jon’s thesis: The end of consensus reality (04:20) What people have underestimated and overestimated since the 70s (06:00) What comes after the nation state? (07:00) The role of military technology in the next era (09:45) What inputs are most important in determining a country’s dominance (11:00) Countering Bali’s theory of the decline of the US dollar (13:00) What has happened to our consensus reality? (16:49) Sponsors: Mercury, Vanta, and NetSuite (18:50) Social Media is a red herring. The internet itself was the disruptor (21:30) Why solving the problems of social media won’t return the world to sanity (26:20) Fragmentation is a good thing (29:25) 2nd order effects of AI (30:30) E/acc vs EA (32:50) Creating a religion out of AI (40:00) The problem with conservatives and technology (46:25) Conservatives ignoring the culture (52:00) Future of the right? (57:00) How do we make sense of a world where we can’t determine a fact? (59:10) Believing science, experts, and Sam Harris -- X/ TWITTER: Erik’s Twitter: @eriktorenberg Jon’s Twitter: @JonAskonas Podcast Twitter: @Upstream__Pod -- This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at erik@turpentine.co.